children and thai boxing don't go together?? so not true my DAUGHTER has been taking part in thai boxing since she was 5 and is now 9 and totally loves it!!! i have been to inter club fights with her (which she also loves taking part in) and it is nothing like what was shown on channel 4. i am not a parent who forces my daughter into doing anything let alone a sport like this. my daughter takes part in thai boxing because SHE wants to not her parents wanting her to.Every inter club and club training is totally safe with instructors and protective gear being worn at no point in the years she has been doing this sport has she been hurt!! the only time she has been hurt was falling off her bike not at thai boxing!!!
I have my reservations on this whole thing. A child will inevitably do whatever they can to please their parents - be that fight in a ring with padding on, or go to thailand to kick other kids in the face. The parents are the people whom the children look up to and trust, and invariably follow. I don't believe that it is an independent and individual decision of the childs to get involved in this sport, and more importantly am seriously concerned regarding the long term health implications of children being involved in fighting of this sort. The childs body is not designed to take such abuse, regardless of head contact or not. I see this more as an oppourtunity for parents to prove something or attempt to achieve a goal they are unable to achieve themselves. Very shocking.
hi Thank you to itv and Lorraine Kelly for giving people a chance to put their side across as these parents stated it is a great discipline for kids and adults. Teaches all kinds of fitness ,the children get an inside interest in diet and the importance of eating correctly.
As Lorraine Kelly states anything that get kids out of the house and off computers and watching tele is a great thing
all bad comments are from people who do not know the sport all of you should give the sport a chance and go to their local gym just to take a look the kids are disciplined not mindless thugs, or lots of pushy parents
well done itv hope this positive feedback will help to promote the sport
Please don't condemn our sport because of a few bad parents.I have been training for two years and have been to a few shows.The kids have always had protective gear on at these shows and are there of their own Accord,our head instructor wouldn't allow a child who doesn't want to be there fight.A few kids who used to hang about causing bother in my area have joined our club and are now keeping their noses clean,it teaches great discipline.My son is into karate and i see much worse injuries at those fights than thai fights but i see no-one condemning this noble art.
these parents should be take to court for they are doing to them if some took them they would be for child abuse so what do they call this then if it is not the same
Thai boxing is a fantastic sport for anyone, and there is no better way of keeping fit and learning how to defend yourself.
But I really don’t see the need for kids to fight, when they are adults they can decide for themselves if fighting is for them. After all this is not Thailand! Where kids fight to make a living or provide a better future for themselves.
i have trained in muay thai boxing for year and have seen only good, like kids now having the confidence to strive for better things in life. not just in the ring but in school and have a good respect for others.
i feel anyone against kids wanting to do this sport are wrong. would you rather your child be a thug, drug dealer or in a violent street gang?? you tell me! muay thai instills respect, disapline and confidence in anyone who wishes to participate.
so channel 4 stop making a mockery of our fabulous sport.
the program and ensuing article shows a small minority of people/promoters that exist the UK within the sport of muaythai that clearly have no morals or guidelines. 99% of practioners of the sport here in the UK do not allow head contact for juniors under 14.
children are not forced to fight and the referee would stop any contest where a junior did not want to compete or was crying from fear or pain. However like all sports there are 'rogue traders'and other versions exist like for example unlicensed boxing.
Many sports are played at risk without medical teams, supervision or rules like football and rugby. Not everybody sticks to the rules.
The sport does have down sides, no doubt however these are easily outweighed by the positive results i have seen in children over the years.
Most of us in the Thai Boxing trade do not allow head contact for under 14's, always use protective body and shin armour and do not allow children to be forced to compete or continue should they not wish to do so. The programme portraits an image of the small minority and as usual never the full story.
One last point. I hope the article makes coaches and promoters consider what they should do and from now on and employ the right ethics for the sport! I will be.
i am upset that people are calling us parents sick and irrasponcible for supporting our children in a sport that they enjoy. is ricky hattons mum and ammara khars mum and all of the other boxers that are champions irrasponcible and sick no i dont think so you are all quick to jude others when you have not spoken to the children who actually enjoy the sport.i have to agree it does sound and look wrong but not all parents are like that you dont get hurt i have 2 children who did the sport and are champions english and british and northwest and area they enjoyed it .my husband also does the sport and has done since he was 6 those clipings that have been shown are accidential head shots it is very rare that a child gets hurt when in tourtnment .
I've been training in muay thai for 12 years. And i think it’s important for children to know how to protect themselves in this day and age, as well as building self confidence and keeping fit. So would say these martial arts should definitely be encouraged. Although I do not agree with children fighting in the ring until at least 12yrs old, and even when they do an APROVED HEADGUIDE should be worn.
My name is Kane, i am 12 and i have been Thai Boxing for 3 years now, i train really hard for events, i eat heathly,and i do as im told by my instructor, because i want to be good at it, all this stuff in the paper makes my chosen sport look dirty, children who train in any marsial arts are controled, dedicated atherlets, and the ones who compet in the ring (30%)love the sport, my friends hang around the streets, drinking and smoking weed, and causing trouble, i go to the gym and get fit, take orders, have a curfew, respect my elders, and most marshial artests are the same, you have one parent in the paper who pushes his kids into the ring when they are obviously not ready to compete yet, an possibly never will be, dont judge the thousands of other kids and parents by this example, come see a show and you will see we dont get hurt, we compete because we want to acheve something, be good at a sport, win medals, trophys and belts and do something with are lives, people complain about parents not taking control of there kids, marshial arts parents get there kids into it so there kids are not like these yobbos on the street, if you can do the training, have the nerve to get in the ring, not give up when your tied and think yourv lost,you will do the same in life, not give up at school, not give up at college,not give up on relationship and your own kids, as for head shots, we dont do them until we are 14, but we still wear gumsheilds incase of accidentaly being hit, in the 12 fights iv had, iv proberly been hit in the face 3 or 4 times, the ref has stoped it and warned the person, the person didnt mean to hit me, they were aimiming for the chest body armer we all wear,we train on defence just as much as hitting, there is contol and rules, we are sports people, like boxers, not abused babys
my child started thai boxing over 1 year ago, lots of problems at school with behaviour and attendance. he started thai boxing and we've never looked back, he's not a model pupil but he is now behaving and attending. he has acheived lots. he loves it. it gives him disipline, keeps him off the streets and keeps him fit. maybe they should have attended more gyms and more shows to see the true thai boxing.
In any sport you have children welfare officers, there are strict guidelines to follow from sport England, and all sporting governing bodies, if this is as bad as it is made out to be, then the sports governing bodies/welfare officers are not doing there job, Someone needs to take responsibility for these actions, is this classed as neglect, emotional abuse, or is this just a one off case forcing a young child to fight, and clearly she does not want this.
This is an issue for the governing bodies involved to decide if this is aloud, or decide if its illegal and charge the parents with abuse. Where do you draw the line at what age if this is allowed?
The parents in this case have already committed an offence with emotional abuse against their daughter. I have no idea if this fighting is legal for such a young age, if it is, it should be banned at once. If a young one dies from this whether it be the opponents fault or not who will be to blamed? and how will the young one cope.
Ban it at this age, and make it illegal if its not already, if it is illegal, get the parents in court.
I was totally horrified when I read this article. This man's actions are irresponsible to say the very least. He is only thinking about himself and of course he knows his daughter gets distressed. He says that she wants to continue with it but of course she just wants to please her Daddy. But when she's cry that much that says it all. Doesn't it?
Speaking as a martial artist myself, I am very concerned about the lack of safety involved. Firstly, the lack of safety gear that these children don't have is shocking any hard style martial arts training must have the correct sparring gear, head guard, gum shield, gloves, forearm guards, boots, shin pads groin guard. Without these sparring should not be allowed under any circumstances. Why?, because the safety element in any sport should never be ignored.There are also questions to raise about these children training in an authentic martial arts club with fully qualified instructors that are vetted CRB Disclosure/Country. Also that the people who are organising the training for these children should be recognised by the Sports Council as the Governing Body for these organisations in the United Kingdom.
I personally feel that the Sports Council should have the authority to come down pretty hard on any trainer or coach who takes such a negligent approach to anyone whether they are recognised or not towards the the training and safety of children or adults. Trainers and coaches who do not meet with the stict rules and regulations that the Sports Council lay down should have a life ban imposed on them.
With every sport there is a risk and when you start training you accept that risk. You place your trust in your instructor to guide you properly as any instructor worth there salt will never force you to do anything that you do not feel uncomfortable about doind and will encourage you to wear safety gear.
Muay Thai (Thai Boxing) is a great sport that promotes fitness/discipline and respect in children. In all my experiences within the sport (7 yrs) helping run childrens classes, I have never had kids injured from contact with each other. Head contact is not allowed under 16 and from the very beginning control is emphasisied with all techniques. Will be interested to see how the documentary portrays our sport.
This is absolutely sickening. I felt physically sick whilst reading this article. How can these so called parents justify putting their babies in a boxing ring and bribing them into fighting with threats of having their sparkly make up taken away???
It's dispicable! These people need to wake up and realise that tiny children will do anything to gain their parents approval. So, Darren Flanagan - your kids aren't enjoying knocking seven bells out of other children, they're just trying to win praise from you!
And your excuse of it's teaching your daughter self defence is just pathetic. If you're so concerned then wait until she's a young adult and send her on a self defence course. And in the meantime do your job as her parent by protecting and nurturing her, rather than instilling in her that aggression and violence is praise worthy.
As for the owners of these gyms - they want closing down!
I totally agree with the above, I would also like to say as a grandparent if my son was ever to do such a thing to his child I would report him myself for being an unfit parent and go straight for custody of my grandson. Children are precious, these parents are sick indivduals and would appear to have the mentallaty of very sick individuals, and should be sent to prison, and not be allowed to breed ever!
I am absolutely outraged that this sort of thing goes on in a country that is suppsed to be civilised. This is not a civilised way to bring up children who will be scared for life. I can only hope that one of them lands a punch on their parents which may knock some sence in to them.
The adults should be put in the ring and the kids should be taken away from them because they are not fit to be parents. I am absolutely disgusted by this and find it completely unbelievable.
Social services should be involved and the venues where these events take place closed down. The people who pay to see such hideous child abuse are no better either.
The government is supposed to protect children, what happened to 'Every child Matters?' I have a five year old niece and I find it incomprehensible that kids her age are being actively encouraged in to such behaviour by their so called parents.
Hi i would love to know which parents force there children i have been fighting thai for years and i have never came across any instructor who forces there children
All parents cheer there children on as do parents who have children in a lot of sports for example dancing football rugby. And they arnt slagged of so why is it you pick thai boxing.
parents cheer there children, to encourage them and to let them know they will support them no matter what result.
This is self defence and will come in handy in years to come with the world nowadays you have to be able to learn how to fight.
I love the thought of my parents cheering me on as do all human beings thai boxing is all about self confidence and respect also discipline. I LOVE it as do all children in my camp
My two children have been training in the art of Thai boxing for the last two years. The training is hard and has it rewards IE Physical stamina is greater and children are able to protect themselves if the need arises.My 14 year old is proud of his sixpack.
In any sport that you do there will be the pushy parents, the gymnast who is on a special diet,the football player who trains everyday and told to go in hard so the opponent knows you are there,believe me i have seen all the pushy parents in the sporting world as both of my sons play a variety of sports.
This martial art is one of the oldest in the world,one of my friends sons does takwendo which is an Olympic sport of which he is a black belt gets more contact injuries than both of my sons put together.
As stated before i have seen more violence and verbal abuse and pushy parents at my sons football matches than at inter-clubs
I am a Martial Arts Instructor to over 300 children and would never agree to this this sort of competition, i believe all competition is healthy but it must be controlled contact and only when they become adults can they make the decission to fight full contact. This is just a mark another along side money driven instructors that give Martial Arts a bad name.
Although I'm a fan of martial arts and have taken part in them, I have never been forced into it or would I do it to my son. These people who are forcing their child to take part in Thai boxing should have their children taken away from them.
And people wonder why British society is crumbling, wondering why we have gangs of feral kids are roaming the streets like savages. I raised to have respect and discipline, but not by being forced into a ring to beat some one to a plup.
Thai boxing has very few rules to start with, lets face it in its home country, spectators want blood and even death in some cases, so what is it going to take for the government to stop this barbaric practice before an innocent child is left brain damaged, or even killed.
If their parents want to take part in Thai boxing then put them in the ring and fight with a traditional Thai boxer, with tradition rules and see how they like it.
When you see your child hit another in the street or the playground, you shout and tell them not to hit other people because its wrong... But now there are parents actually COACHING and EGGING children on to do just that, and infront of a paying crowd????
This is one of the most disgusting things i have come across in a long time, and it made my stomach churn. It only takes one kick, one punch, one hit in the wrong place and your child could end up in hospital, and in pain from something YOU have told them to do?!
The people paying to watch this are just as bad as the parents who are willing their children on to fight. For you people who are saying "Its not as bad as the papers are making out" - Put your child in the ring, and see how you feel then.
If your opinion is still the same then maybe you shouldnt be a parent at all. This should be illegal, and in my humble opinion, so such parents don't deserve to have children. Let them enjoy being young before you force them into a way of life they never wanted to live.
How can these people call themselves PARENTS, they shouldn't be allowed to have two beautiful children -- I feel deeply sorry for their families, especially the Grand Parents. Obsessive pushy parents are every where, but these two are sick
I have been Thai-boxing for two and a half years and I have never once come across a junior thai-boxer that has fought head contact. The organisation I belong to does not allow any head contact till you are sixteen. My parents have never made me fight, they have just supported my desicion to do so. Thai-boxing has had a very positive influence on me. It has taught me discpline and fitness, I am actually very proud of having a fit and healthy body. My confidence has increased since I started Thai-boxing.
The programme has been shown with an angle to make it more controversial. The pushy parents’ angle could be used in any sport that children compete in.
I’ve witnessed furious parents, at school football games, encouraging their children to “take” another player out more times than I care to remember.
I have also seen parents running over and attacking referees at children’s football games. If pushy parents in children’s sport were an issue for the programme makers to make why not show it across ALL sports including mainstream sports like football, rugby and tennis?
I think it’s a disgrace to demonise one sport for something all sports suffer from.
The way the papers have reported this does make it sound cruel,The facts are, children under 14 are not allowed to hit each other in the face, it is an illegal shot, that is why they dont wear headguards, if they do strike an opponent in the face, the offending child will be disqualified, so the kids try not to hit each other in the face.
The sport it regulated by several governing bodies, and you have to be 14 for head shots, and then you will have to wear head guards and full protective gear.
The kids wear body armer, shinpads, groin guards,and gumsheilds in case of accidental strikes
Normal boxers at 11 strike each other in the face, properly organized Thai boxing events do not allow this until 14 with head guards.
i think that these parents are vile and shouldnt even be allowed to have children under their care i think that the mother should be shoved in a ring with a proffesional kick boxer and let them see what it is like
I dont know how how any parent can justify a five year old being in a boxing ring being punched in the head at all...especially without protective head gear. The sport may have a positive side but at that age I can see any.
I am a father of 5 children, 3 of which train regularly in Muay Thai, and 2 compete on a regular basis. I haven't yet seen the documentary
Those of us involved in the sport know that, were you to report the truth, it would make for a positive story, about children competing at a high standard, and we all know us Brits like nothing better than to point fingers and moan.
I have personally been to many of these junior events and have never witnessed anything like mentioned in this article.
If there are parents "Forcing " their children into the ring, then I agree that something has to be done, but this article makes it sound like ALL parents involved in the sport act like this and that the sport itself is barbaric, when it simply is not true.
The vast majority of parents simply encourage and support their children in their chosen sport, a sport which, in my experience, has had nothing but a positive effect on my children's health, confidence and (according to their teachers) their schoolwork.
I am not surprised in the slightest channel 4 have portrayed the sport as being negative.
i am a parent of 5 children one of which trains in muay thai kickboxing since the age of 6 years - now 12.
As a parent i do not force my son - Isaac into the ring and encourage him to hurt his opponant in any way.
Isaac himself have read this story in your newspaer and thinks the same as me -
I am sure if any of these so called do gooders were to take time out and watch an organised event they would see the matter in a different light.
My son has never been injured or caused an injury to anyone else.
the sport have been portrayed in a negative way.
Do you really think as parents we would force our children in a ring if they did not want to participate.
Ask yourself one thing - Isaac was recently awarded a grant to take part in competitions by a very repitable charity - do you really think if the sport was as bad as everyone is making out he would have been successful in getting this ?
I THINK NOT
after reading the article today i am sickened by the behaviour of these so called parents treating kids in this manner.I have been a sports coach for many years and am sick and tired of parents living their dreams through their kids.There are many sports in which these children could be enjoying without being beaten round a ring,You need a licence for a tv or to drive a car but this sick individuals can just have kids to treat them like this,they are a disgrace to parenthood and the sooner the kids are out of this type of environment the better!!
Abuse,Abuse, we've banned dog fighting, so now we put our kids in a ring to fight for the viewing public and parents to watch and jeer at,oh yes and whatever perve decides to go and watch kids beat each other up, and the comment that the mum made about when she used to fight and accually enjoying splattering her opponient nose across her face, WOW this is just not on, something really has to be done, Now....
From what Ive seen, the documentary is more to do with pushy parents than junior Thai Boxing.
Its a shame - but sadly predictable - that the filmmakers chose this angle on the sport. Especially so as the vast, vast majority of junior competitors enter willingly and eagerly, dragging their parents along rather than being pushed.
As an activity, whether you like combat sports or not, the fact remains that Thai Boxing has a safer record than; gymkhana, skateboarding, BMX-ing, swimming, surfing, football and even fishing!
In sensationalizing the attitudes of a very few parents, the filmmakers missed the opportunity to congratulate those British juniors who have worked very hard (with responsible guidance)to excel in this sport - sometimes to International level.
To gain the junior Thai Boxer's perspective, try www.christicampbell.co.uk
this is just the minority ruining things for the mnajority again.
im sure for every one idiotic parent who lets there 4 year old into the ring with protection they will be at least 10 who wouldnt but that wouldnt make a very good documentary would it
and when i went to a kids football match the manager told the parents to go easy on the ref as any abuse and the game would stop. so maybe its not just muay thai that parents get too het up about
The so called parents of these children are nothing short of disgusting! How can that little girl be enjoying herself when she is crying(obviously in terror)? My 14 year old son recently took up kick boxing,he had already been learning karate for over 6 years,but at his PROFESSIONAL club,you have to be at LEAST 14 to start kick boxing and then you cannot start competing until you have passed your first 3 belt grades,and then only if HE wants to compete!Young children shouldn't be allowed to compete in this sport and those who sit and watch it are just as vile as the selfish pigs who push their small children into it!
This documentary, and the subsequent articles show a very one sided negative view of the sport. I have been involvedin it for 25 years, now. My eldest son competes to a high leval, he has never been forced to fight and loves the sport, he lives for it. My younger son has no interest and does no train, my daughter goes along to train every now and then but does not compete. the sport is actually quite safe, with proper protection used on every show I go to. the film crew have picked up a minority and edited other peoples comments to make it look very negative. I have so many positives from the sport I could write for hours.
I totally agree with Lynne Smith, the parents are just doing this for their own selfish selves,by looking at them you can tell, with their sunbed tans they look like bars of chocolate,the pictures in the paper today was so upsetting to see that little girl crying before she went into the ring to fight.They are not role models for their children and don`t deserve them, they should have days out as a family without it involving going to thai boxing!I'm not an agressive person, but i'd like an hour in the ring with the so called 'mother'!
i found this so very upsetting, my children do martial arts, to learn how to protect themselves and exercise, self disapline, self confidence, co ordination, but these poor children are falsed into this, this is a form of abuse, i would never do this to my children. This is one of the reasons that children are becoming more violent, this has to stop now, there must be some law against this surely??? I love my kids very much, but i would never put my kids through something that they clearly didn't want to do. what about their bodies that are only just developing? the damage it must be doing? what would these parents do if they got brain damage from it? and became disabled?
ive been fighting in kickboxing for about 2 years winning all fights not once have i been hurt its very fair and no one lets you get hurt..ilove it...WE ALL WEAR PROTECTIVE GEAR..and were not hanging round street corners or in gangs...
These children are so young, their primary carers are their parents and they are abusing there vulnerability and dependance on them. This is emotional, physical, neglect forms of abuse displayed here. These parents are failing to realise they are potentially damaging there childs future development, physically and mentally. They are violating their Absolute human rights (Art 3)...These are not parents, they are selfish and inhumane people who are hurting their children. I just hope they realise that sooner rather than later.
i cannot believe what i have seen ad read today, kids being forced to fight in a boxing ring. This is 100% child abuse and the parents of these children should be locked up. its a disgrace. the governement souldnt let this happen. this is going against the childs human rights which the government imposed. there should also be tight regulation on this type of stuff with tight age restrictions. this has surly got to affect the health of these kids, their brains are still developing. its just another thing to show how bad this country really is.
I think its sick that these parents would let their young children get beaten and all these parents do is stand there watching and shouting at them to win. Any parent who enjoys watching their children do this should NEVER be allowed to have children because thats not a parent thats a sick monster. These children should be taken away from their mums and dads who should be locked up for exploiting their children like this.Even if these children wore protective clothing such as head gear it would still be bad no one should be forced into anything like this if i found out any of my family are letting their children do this i would ring social services and then the police i would make sure that until their parents acted like it they would have no contact with their children for the childs sake.So if you know any of these children and their parents or any child that is going through this torture do the right thing and tell on them to save the children from this kind of abuse.
These parents are forcing/manipulating their kids into doing this purely for their own gratification. These children are being abused mentally and emotionally. Social services have a duty to investigate this matter immediately.
these parents who force their kids into fights,don't deserve to be called parents.my two daughters do thai boxing,i would never force them force them in to fights,the gym they trained at always put safety first.
Good parents ? NO. Sick parents ? YES.
These children "MUST" be taken away by social services (NSPCC) from the sick nasty evil so called parents that allow these poor kids to suffer.
Maybe these low life parents would have the guts to get into the ring with "IRON MIKE TYSON" (I don't think so).
as a martial artist myself, i find this absolutely appauling.When i used to teach all children and adults wore full protective equipment and under full supervision. These parents who are pushing there young children into kickboxing without any protective gear is cruelty, and should be illegal. i would never push my son into this, as a parent and a martial artist. What type of parent want's to see there child get hurt. We are here to protect them not put there lifes at risk.
These "parents" are an abolutely monstrous disgrace. The children are not safe being brought up with the likes of them, and I will be contacing social services tomorrow to raise my concerns, and then the authorities can decide whether these sick weirdos are fit to keep their children
children and thai boxing don't go together?? so not true my DAUGHTER has been taking part in thai boxing since she was 5 and is now 9 and totally loves it!!! i have been to inter club fights with her (which she also loves taking part in) and it is nothing like what was shown on channel 4. i am not a parent who forces my daughter into doing anything let alone a sport like this. my daughter takes part in thai boxing because SHE wants to not her parents wanting her to.Every inter club and club training is totally safe with instructors and protective gear being worn at no point in the years she has been doing this sport has she been hurt!! the only time she has been hurt was falling off her bike not at thai boxing!!!
Posted by: tracie monaghan | May 31, 2008 at 12:48 PM
I have my reservations on this whole thing. A child will inevitably do whatever they can to please their parents - be that fight in a ring with padding on, or go to thailand to kick other kids in the face. The parents are the people whom the children look up to and trust, and invariably follow. I don't believe that it is an independent and individual decision of the childs to get involved in this sport, and more importantly am seriously concerned regarding the long term health implications of children being involved in fighting of this sort. The childs body is not designed to take such abuse, regardless of head contact or not. I see this more as an oppourtunity for parents to prove something or attempt to achieve a goal they are unable to achieve themselves. Very shocking.
Posted by: Jim | April 24, 2008 at 09:27 PM
hi Thank you to itv and Lorraine Kelly for giving people a chance to put their side across as these parents stated it is a great discipline for kids and adults. Teaches all kinds of fitness ,the children get an inside interest in diet and the importance of eating correctly.
As Lorraine Kelly states anything that get kids out of the house and off computers and watching tele is a great thing
all bad comments are from people who do not know the sport all of you should give the sport a chance and go to their local gym just to take a look the kids are disciplined not mindless thugs, or lots of pushy parents
well done itv hope this positive feedback will help to promote the sport
Posted by: steve from manchester | April 23, 2008 at 04:57 PM
Please don't condemn our sport because of a few bad parents.I have been training for two years and have been to a few shows.The kids have always had protective gear on at these shows and are there of their own Accord,our head instructor wouldn't allow a child who doesn't want to be there fight.A few kids who used to hang about causing bother in my area have joined our club and are now keeping their noses clean,it teaches great discipline.My son is into karate and i see much worse injuries at those fights than thai fights but i see no-one condemning this noble art.
Posted by: Sheryl | April 23, 2008 at 11:27 AM
these parents should be take to court for they are doing to them if some took them they would be for child abuse so what do they call this then if it is not the same
Posted by: david | April 22, 2008 at 07:19 PM
Thai boxing is a fantastic sport for anyone, and there is no better way of keeping fit and learning how to defend yourself.
But I really don’t see the need for kids to fight, when they are adults they can decide for themselves if fighting is for them. After all this is not Thailand! Where kids fight to make a living or provide a better future for themselves.
Posted by: thefighter | April 22, 2008 at 08:16 AM
i have trained in muay thai boxing for year and have seen only good, like kids now having the confidence to strive for better things in life. not just in the ring but in school and have a good respect for others.
i feel anyone against kids wanting to do this sport are wrong. would you rather your child be a thug, drug dealer or in a violent street gang?? you tell me! muay thai instills respect, disapline and confidence in anyone who wishes to participate.
so channel 4 stop making a mockery of our fabulous sport.
Posted by: Muay Thai is Good! | April 21, 2008 at 11:25 PM
the program and ensuing article shows a small minority of people/promoters that exist the UK within the sport of muaythai that clearly have no morals or guidelines. 99% of practioners of the sport here in the UK do not allow head contact for juniors under 14.
children are not forced to fight and the referee would stop any contest where a junior did not want to compete or was crying from fear or pain. However like all sports there are 'rogue traders'and other versions exist like for example unlicensed boxing.
Many sports are played at risk without medical teams, supervision or rules like football and rugby. Not everybody sticks to the rules.
The sport does have down sides, no doubt however these are easily outweighed by the positive results i have seen in children over the years.
Most of us in the Thai Boxing trade do not allow head contact for under 14's, always use protective body and shin armour and do not allow children to be forced to compete or continue should they not wish to do so. The programme portraits an image of the small minority and as usual never the full story.
One last point. I hope the article makes coaches and promoters consider what they should do and from now on and employ the right ethics for the sport! I will be.
Posted by: alan keddle | April 21, 2008 at 06:22 PM
i am upset that people are calling us parents sick and irrasponcible for supporting our children in a sport that they enjoy. is ricky hattons mum and ammara khars mum and all of the other boxers that are champions irrasponcible and sick no i dont think so you are all quick to jude others when you have not spoken to the children who actually enjoy the sport.i have to agree it does sound and look wrong but not all parents are like that you dont get hurt i have 2 children who did the sport and are champions english and british and northwest and area they enjoyed it .my husband also does the sport and has done since he was 6 those clipings that have been shown are accidential head shots it is very rare that a child gets hurt when in tourtnment .
Posted by: kevin oloughlin | April 21, 2008 at 01:18 PM
I've been training in muay thai for 12 years. And i think it’s important for children to know how to protect themselves in this day and age, as well as building self confidence and keeping fit. So would say these martial arts should definitely be encouraged. Although I do not agree with children fighting in the ring until at least 12yrs old, and even when they do an APROVED HEADGUIDE should be worn.
Posted by: dave House | April 21, 2008 at 01:14 PM
My name is Kane, i am 12 and i have been Thai Boxing for 3 years now, i train really hard for events, i eat heathly,and i do as im told by my instructor, because i want to be good at it, all this stuff in the paper makes my chosen sport look dirty, children who train in any marsial arts are controled, dedicated atherlets, and the ones who compet in the ring (30%)love the sport, my friends hang around the streets, drinking and smoking weed, and causing trouble, i go to the gym and get fit, take orders, have a curfew, respect my elders, and most marshial artests are the same, you have one parent in the paper who pushes his kids into the ring when they are obviously not ready to compete yet, an possibly never will be, dont judge the thousands of other kids and parents by this example, come see a show and you will see we dont get hurt, we compete because we want to acheve something, be good at a sport, win medals, trophys and belts and do something with are lives, people complain about parents not taking control of there kids, marshial arts parents get there kids into it so there kids are not like these yobbos on the street, if you can do the training, have the nerve to get in the ring, not give up when your tied and think yourv lost,you will do the same in life, not give up at school, not give up at college,not give up on relationship and your own kids, as for head shots, we dont do them until we are 14, but we still wear gumsheilds incase of accidentaly being hit, in the 12 fights iv had, iv proberly been hit in the face 3 or 4 times, the ref has stoped it and warned the person, the person didnt mean to hit me, they were aimiming for the chest body armer we all wear,we train on defence just as much as hitting, there is contol and rules, we are sports people, like boxers, not abused babys
Posted by: Kane | April 21, 2008 at 09:27 AM
my child started thai boxing over 1 year ago, lots of problems at school with behaviour and attendance. he started thai boxing and we've never looked back, he's not a model pupil but he is now behaving and attending. he has acheived lots. he loves it. it gives him disipline, keeps him off the streets and keeps him fit. maybe they should have attended more gyms and more shows to see the true thai boxing.
Posted by: chris | April 21, 2008 at 09:23 AM
In any sport you have children welfare officers, there are strict guidelines to follow from sport England, and all sporting governing bodies, if this is as bad as it is made out to be, then the sports governing bodies/welfare officers are not doing there job, Someone needs to take responsibility for these actions, is this classed as neglect, emotional abuse, or is this just a one off case forcing a young child to fight, and clearly she does not want this.
This is an issue for the governing bodies involved to decide if this is aloud, or decide if its illegal and charge the parents with abuse. Where do you draw the line at what age if this is allowed?
The parents in this case have already committed an offence with emotional abuse against their daughter. I have no idea if this fighting is legal for such a young age, if it is, it should be banned at once. If a young one dies from this whether it be the opponents fault or not who will be to blamed? and how will the young one cope.
Ban it at this age, and make it illegal if its not already, if it is illegal, get the parents in court.
Posted by: CARL | April 21, 2008 at 01:37 AM
I was totally horrified when I read this article. This man's actions are irresponsible to say the very least. He is only thinking about himself and of course he knows his daughter gets distressed. He says that she wants to continue with it but of course she just wants to please her Daddy. But when she's cry that much that says it all. Doesn't it?
Speaking as a martial artist myself, I am very concerned about the lack of safety involved. Firstly, the lack of safety gear that these children don't have is shocking any hard style martial arts training must have the correct sparring gear, head guard, gum shield, gloves, forearm guards, boots, shin pads groin guard. Without these sparring should not be allowed under any circumstances. Why?, because the safety element in any sport should never be ignored.There are also questions to raise about these children training in an authentic martial arts club with fully qualified instructors that are vetted CRB Disclosure/Country. Also that the people who are organising the training for these children should be recognised by the Sports Council as the Governing Body for these organisations in the United Kingdom.
I personally feel that the Sports Council should have the authority to come down pretty hard on any trainer or coach who takes such a negligent approach to anyone whether they are recognised or not towards the the training and safety of children or adults. Trainers and coaches who do not meet with the stict rules and regulations that the Sports Council lay down should have a life ban imposed on them.
With every sport there is a risk and when you start training you accept that risk. You place your trust in your instructor to guide you properly as any instructor worth there salt will never force you to do anything that you do not feel uncomfortable about doind and will encourage you to wear safety gear.
Posted by: Nancy | April 21, 2008 at 12:26 AM
Muay Thai (Thai Boxing) is a great sport that promotes fitness/discipline and respect in children. In all my experiences within the sport (7 yrs) helping run childrens classes, I have never had kids injured from contact with each other. Head contact is not allowed under 16 and from the very beginning control is emphasisied with all techniques. Will be interested to see how the documentary portrays our sport.
Posted by: Alix | April 21, 2008 at 12:04 AM
This is absolutely sickening. I felt physically sick whilst reading this article. How can these so called parents justify putting their babies in a boxing ring and bribing them into fighting with threats of having their sparkly make up taken away???
It's dispicable! These people need to wake up and realise that tiny children will do anything to gain their parents approval. So, Darren Flanagan - your kids aren't enjoying knocking seven bells out of other children, they're just trying to win praise from you!
And your excuse of it's teaching your daughter self defence is just pathetic. If you're so concerned then wait until she's a young adult and send her on a self defence course. And in the meantime do your job as her parent by protecting and nurturing her, rather than instilling in her that aggression and violence is praise worthy.
As for the owners of these gyms - they want closing down!
Posted by: Sarah Johnson | April 20, 2008 at 10:59 PM
I totally agree with the above, I would also like to say as a grandparent if my son was ever to do such a thing to his child I would report him myself for being an unfit parent and go straight for custody of my grandson. Children are precious, these parents are sick indivduals and would appear to have the mentallaty of very sick individuals, and should be sent to prison, and not be allowed to breed ever!
Posted by: Carol | April 20, 2008 at 10:54 PM
I am absolutely outraged that this sort of thing goes on in a country that is suppsed to be civilised. This is not a civilised way to bring up children who will be scared for life. I can only hope that one of them lands a punch on their parents which may knock some sence in to them.
The adults should be put in the ring and the kids should be taken away from them because they are not fit to be parents. I am absolutely disgusted by this and find it completely unbelievable.
Social services should be involved and the venues where these events take place closed down. The people who pay to see such hideous child abuse are no better either.
The government is supposed to protect children, what happened to 'Every child Matters?' I have a five year old niece and I find it incomprehensible that kids her age are being actively encouraged in to such behaviour by their so called parents.
Posted by: sue dean | April 20, 2008 at 09:29 PM
Hi i would love to know which parents force there children i have been fighting thai for years and i have never came across any instructor who forces there children
All parents cheer there children on as do parents who have children in a lot of sports for example dancing football rugby. And they arnt slagged of so why is it you pick thai boxing.
parents cheer there children, to encourage them and to let them know they will support them no matter what result.
This is self defence and will come in handy in years to come with the world nowadays you have to be able to learn how to fight.
I love the thought of my parents cheering me on as do all human beings thai boxing is all about self confidence and respect also discipline. I LOVE it as do all children in my camp
Posted by: WIRRAL | April 20, 2008 at 09:14 PM
My two children have been training in the art of Thai boxing for the last two years. The training is hard and has it rewards IE Physical stamina is greater and children are able to protect themselves if the need arises.My 14 year old is proud of his sixpack.
In any sport that you do there will be the pushy parents, the gymnast who is on a special diet,the football player who trains everyday and told to go in hard so the opponent knows you are there,believe me i have seen all the pushy parents in the sporting world as both of my sons play a variety of sports.
This martial art is one of the oldest in the world,one of my friends sons does takwendo which is an Olympic sport of which he is a black belt gets more contact injuries than both of my sons put together.
As stated before i have seen more violence and verbal abuse and pushy parents at my sons football matches than at inter-clubs
Posted by: steve | April 20, 2008 at 09:04 PM
I am a Martial Arts Instructor to over 300 children and would never agree to this this sort of competition, i believe all competition is healthy but it must be controlled contact and only when they become adults can they make the decission to fight full contact. This is just a mark another along side money driven instructors that give Martial Arts a bad name.
Posted by: wayne stokes | April 20, 2008 at 08:56 PM
Although I'm a fan of martial arts and have taken part in them, I have never been forced into it or would I do it to my son. These people who are forcing their child to take part in Thai boxing should have their children taken away from them.
And people wonder why British society is crumbling, wondering why we have gangs of feral kids are roaming the streets like savages. I raised to have respect and discipline, but not by being forced into a ring to beat some one to a plup.
Thai boxing has very few rules to start with, lets face it in its home country, spectators want blood and even death in some cases, so what is it going to take for the government to stop this barbaric practice before an innocent child is left brain damaged, or even killed.
If their parents want to take part in Thai boxing then put them in the ring and fight with a traditional Thai boxer, with tradition rules and see how they like it.
Posted by: David Hall | April 20, 2008 at 08:29 PM
When you see your child hit another in the street or the playground, you shout and tell them not to hit other people because its wrong... But now there are parents actually COACHING and EGGING children on to do just that, and infront of a paying crowd????
This is one of the most disgusting things i have come across in a long time, and it made my stomach churn. It only takes one kick, one punch, one hit in the wrong place and your child could end up in hospital, and in pain from something YOU have told them to do?!
The people paying to watch this are just as bad as the parents who are willing their children on to fight. For you people who are saying "Its not as bad as the papers are making out" - Put your child in the ring, and see how you feel then.
If your opinion is still the same then maybe you shouldnt be a parent at all. This should be illegal, and in my humble opinion, so such parents don't deserve to have children. Let them enjoy being young before you force them into a way of life they never wanted to live.
Posted by: Samantha | April 20, 2008 at 08:19 PM
How can these people call themselves PARENTS, they shouldn't be allowed to have two beautiful children -- I feel deeply sorry for their families, especially the Grand Parents. Obsessive pushy parents are every where, but these two are sick
Posted by: Frances Banks | April 20, 2008 at 06:54 PM
I have been Thai-boxing for two and a half years and I have never once come across a junior thai-boxer that has fought head contact. The organisation I belong to does not allow any head contact till you are sixteen. My parents have never made me fight, they have just supported my desicion to do so. Thai-boxing has had a very positive influence on me. It has taught me discpline and fitness, I am actually very proud of having a fit and healthy body. My confidence has increased since I started Thai-boxing.
Posted by: liam aged 10 | April 20, 2008 at 06:30 PM
The programme has been shown with an angle to make it more controversial. The pushy parents’ angle could be used in any sport that children compete in.
I’ve witnessed furious parents, at school football games, encouraging their children to “take” another player out more times than I care to remember.
I have also seen parents running over and attacking referees at children’s football games. If pushy parents in children’s sport were an issue for the programme makers to make why not show it across ALL sports including mainstream sports like football, rugby and tennis?
I think it’s a disgrace to demonise one sport for something all sports suffer from.
Posted by: Mark Hendrie | April 20, 2008 at 05:23 PM
The way the papers have reported this does make it sound cruel,The facts are, children under 14 are not allowed to hit each other in the face, it is an illegal shot, that is why they dont wear headguards, if they do strike an opponent in the face, the offending child will be disqualified, so the kids try not to hit each other in the face.
The sport it regulated by several governing bodies, and you have to be 14 for head shots, and then you will have to wear head guards and full protective gear.
The kids wear body armer, shinpads, groin guards,and gumsheilds in case of accidental strikes
Normal boxers at 11 strike each other in the face, properly organized Thai boxing events do not allow this until 14 with head guards.
Posted by: Karl Chamberlain | April 20, 2008 at 04:05 PM
i think that these parents are vile and shouldnt even be allowed to have children under their care i think that the mother should be shoved in a ring with a proffesional kick boxer and let them see what it is like
Posted by: donna fellows | April 20, 2008 at 03:56 PM
I dont know how how any parent can justify a five year old being in a boxing ring being punched in the head at all...especially without protective head gear. The sport may have a positive side but at that age I can see any.
Posted by: jennifer | April 20, 2008 at 03:32 PM
Disgusting, no better than illegal dog fighting.
Posted by: maria travers | April 20, 2008 at 03:30 PM
I am a father of 5 children, 3 of which train regularly in Muay Thai, and 2 compete on a regular basis. I haven't yet seen the documentary
Those of us involved in the sport know that, were you to report the truth, it would make for a positive story, about children competing at a high standard, and we all know us Brits like nothing better than to point fingers and moan.
I have personally been to many of these junior events and have never witnessed anything like mentioned in this article.
If there are parents "Forcing " their children into the ring, then I agree that something has to be done, but this article makes it sound like ALL parents involved in the sport act like this and that the sport itself is barbaric, when it simply is not true.
The vast majority of parents simply encourage and support their children in their chosen sport, a sport which, in my experience, has had nothing but a positive effect on my children's health, confidence and (according to their teachers) their schoolwork.
Posted by: Robert Teale | April 20, 2008 at 03:19 PM
I am not surprised in the slightest channel 4 have portrayed the sport as being negative.
i am a parent of 5 children one of which trains in muay thai kickboxing since the age of 6 years - now 12.
As a parent i do not force my son - Isaac into the ring and encourage him to hurt his opponant in any way.
Isaac himself have read this story in your newspaer and thinks the same as me -
I am sure if any of these so called do gooders were to take time out and watch an organised event they would see the matter in a different light.
My son has never been injured or caused an injury to anyone else.
the sport have been portrayed in a negative way.
Do you really think as parents we would force our children in a ring if they did not want to participate.
Ask yourself one thing - Isaac was recently awarded a grant to take part in competitions by a very repitable charity - do you really think if the sport was as bad as everyone is making out he would have been successful in getting this ?
I THINK NOT
Posted by: K Ellans | April 20, 2008 at 03:18 PM
after reading the article today i am sickened by the behaviour of these so called parents treating kids in this manner.I have been a sports coach for many years and am sick and tired of parents living their dreams through their kids.There are many sports in which these children could be enjoying without being beaten round a ring,You need a licence for a tv or to drive a car but this sick individuals can just have kids to treat them like this,they are a disgrace to parenthood and the sooner the kids are out of this type of environment the better!!
Posted by: larry | April 20, 2008 at 03:11 PM
Abuse,Abuse, we've banned dog fighting, so now we put our kids in a ring to fight for the viewing public and parents to watch and jeer at,oh yes and whatever perve decides to go and watch kids beat each other up, and the comment that the mum made about when she used to fight and accually enjoying splattering her opponient nose across her face, WOW this is just not on, something really has to be done, Now....
Posted by: Christina | April 20, 2008 at 02:46 PM
From what Ive seen, the documentary is more to do with pushy parents than junior Thai Boxing.
Its a shame - but sadly predictable - that the filmmakers chose this angle on the sport. Especially so as the vast, vast majority of junior competitors enter willingly and eagerly, dragging their parents along rather than being pushed.
As an activity, whether you like combat sports or not, the fact remains that Thai Boxing has a safer record than; gymkhana, skateboarding, BMX-ing, swimming, surfing, football and even fishing!
In sensationalizing the attitudes of a very few parents, the filmmakers missed the opportunity to congratulate those British juniors who have worked very hard (with responsible guidance)to excel in this sport - sometimes to International level.
To gain the junior Thai Boxer's perspective, try www.christicampbell.co.uk
Posted by: Sid Remmer | April 20, 2008 at 02:46 PM
this is just the minority ruining things for the mnajority again.
im sure for every one idiotic parent who lets there 4 year old into the ring with protection they will be at least 10 who wouldnt but that wouldnt make a very good documentary would it
and when i went to a kids football match the manager told the parents to go easy on the ref as any abuse and the game would stop. so maybe its not just muay thai that parents get too het up about
Posted by: sue | April 20, 2008 at 02:19 PM
The so called parents of these children are nothing short of disgusting! How can that little girl be enjoying herself when she is crying(obviously in terror)? My 14 year old son recently took up kick boxing,he had already been learning karate for over 6 years,but at his PROFESSIONAL club,you have to be at LEAST 14 to start kick boxing and then you cannot start competing until you have passed your first 3 belt grades,and then only if HE wants to compete!Young children shouldn't be allowed to compete in this sport and those who sit and watch it are just as vile as the selfish pigs who push their small children into it!
Posted by: jane | April 20, 2008 at 02:19 PM
This documentary, and the subsequent articles show a very one sided negative view of the sport. I have been involvedin it for 25 years, now. My eldest son competes to a high leval, he has never been forced to fight and loves the sport, he lives for it. My younger son has no interest and does no train, my daughter goes along to train every now and then but does not compete. the sport is actually quite safe, with proper protection used on every show I go to. the film crew have picked up a minority and edited other peoples comments to make it look very negative. I have so many positives from the sport I could write for hours.
Posted by: Darren Phillips | April 20, 2008 at 02:01 PM
I totally agree with Lynne Smith, the parents are just doing this for their own selfish selves,by looking at them you can tell, with their sunbed tans they look like bars of chocolate,the pictures in the paper today was so upsetting to see that little girl crying before she went into the ring to fight.They are not role models for their children and don`t deserve them, they should have days out as a family without it involving going to thai boxing!I'm not an agressive person, but i'd like an hour in the ring with the so called 'mother'!
Posted by: Diane | April 20, 2008 at 01:26 PM
i found this so very upsetting, my children do martial arts, to learn how to protect themselves and exercise, self disapline, self confidence, co ordination, but these poor children are falsed into this, this is a form of abuse, i would never do this to my children. This is one of the reasons that children are becoming more violent, this has to stop now, there must be some law against this surely??? I love my kids very much, but i would never put my kids through something that they clearly didn't want to do. what about their bodies that are only just developing? the damage it must be doing? what would these parents do if they got brain damage from it? and became disabled?
Posted by: j sargeant | April 20, 2008 at 12:37 PM
ive been fighting in kickboxing for about 2 years winning all fights not once have i been hurt its very fair and no one lets you get hurt..ilove it...WE ALL WEAR PROTECTIVE GEAR..and were not hanging round street corners or in gangs...
Posted by: lewis holland age 11 | April 20, 2008 at 12:10 PM
These children are so young, their primary carers are their parents and they are abusing there vulnerability and dependance on them. This is emotional, physical, neglect forms of abuse displayed here. These parents are failing to realise they are potentially damaging there childs future development, physically and mentally. They are violating their Absolute human rights (Art 3)...These are not parents, they are selfish and inhumane people who are hurting their children. I just hope they realise that sooner rather than later.
Posted by: Jennifer | April 20, 2008 at 11:52 AM
i cannot believe what i have seen ad read today, kids being forced to fight in a boxing ring. This is 100% child abuse and the parents of these children should be locked up. its a disgrace. the governement souldnt let this happen. this is going against the childs human rights which the government imposed. there should also be tight regulation on this type of stuff with tight age restrictions. this has surly got to affect the health of these kids, their brains are still developing. its just another thing to show how bad this country really is.
Posted by: Liam H | April 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM
I think its sick that these parents would let their young children get beaten and all these parents do is stand there watching and shouting at them to win. Any parent who enjoys watching their children do this should NEVER be allowed to have children because thats not a parent thats a sick monster. These children should be taken away from their mums and dads who should be locked up for exploiting their children like this.Even if these children wore protective clothing such as head gear it would still be bad no one should be forced into anything like this if i found out any of my family are letting their children do this i would ring social services and then the police i would make sure that until their parents acted like it they would have no contact with their children for the childs sake.So if you know any of these children and their parents or any child that is going through this torture do the right thing and tell on them to save the children from this kind of abuse.
Posted by: anonymous | April 20, 2008 at 11:14 AM
These parents are forcing/manipulating their kids into doing this purely for their own gratification. These children are being abused mentally and emotionally. Social services have a duty to investigate this matter immediately.
Posted by: Lynne Smith | April 20, 2008 at 10:51 AM
these parents who force their kids into fights,don't deserve to be called parents.my two daughters do thai boxing,i would never force them force them in to fights,the gym they trained at always put safety first.
Posted by: mike harrison | April 20, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Good parents ? NO. Sick parents ? YES.
These children "MUST" be taken away by social services (NSPCC) from the sick nasty evil so called parents that allow these poor kids to suffer.
Maybe these low life parents would have the guts to get into the ring with "IRON MIKE TYSON" (I don't think so).
Barry Thompson
Posted by: Barry Thompson | April 20, 2008 at 09:46 AM
as a martial artist myself, i find this absolutely appauling.When i used to teach all children and adults wore full protective equipment and under full supervision. These parents who are pushing there young children into kickboxing without any protective gear is cruelty, and should be illegal. i would never push my son into this, as a parent and a martial artist. What type of parent want's to see there child get hurt. We are here to protect them not put there lifes at risk.
Posted by: charles coldron | April 20, 2008 at 09:23 AM
These "parents" are an abolutely monstrous disgrace. The children are not safe being brought up with the likes of them, and I will be contacing social services tomorrow to raise my concerns, and then the authorities can decide whether these sick weirdos are fit to keep their children
Posted by: anon | April 20, 2008 at 08:17 AM